{"id":2,"date":"2011-09-20T16:19:19","date_gmt":"2011-09-20T16:19:19","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/?page_id=2"},"modified":"2014-04-03T17:03:06","modified_gmt":"2014-04-04T00:03:06","slug":"open-letter-to-tim-keller","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/open-letter-to-tim-keller\/","title":{"rendered":"Dr. Timothy Keller"},"content":{"rendered":"
The following is an open letter to Tim Keller presenting our questions regarding his traditional view of hell:<\/div>\n
\n

Dear Dr. Keller,<\/p>\n

We were introduced to you through a mutual friend back in the early days
\nof New Life Church and the late Jack Miller. Who we are today has been
\nsignificantly shaped by your ministry. We have been sermon subscribers
\nand have read and re-read all your books. You have shepherded us well
\nthrough your preaching and example and taught us how to see Jesus and
\nHis gospel as central to the story of the Bible. This has always been
\ndone in a spirit of sincerity and humility. We have never felt manipulated
\nbut only lovingly discipled and confronted by grace. We have the same
\nabiding respect for your wife Kathy who we know has been central to the
\nsuccess of your ministry and message.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

In the aftermath of the debate over Rob Bell’s Love Wins <\/em>and now the movie “Hellbound?”\u00a0we have felt
\nthat many relevant issues and questions in relation to the nature of hell
\nhave not been brought into the discussion or satisfactorily answered.
\nThe following observations and questions are directed to you as someone
\nwe respect and will continue to respect and learn from even if you disagree
\nwith our conclusions.<\/p>\n

For the past 15+ years you, and others perhaps taking your lead, have
\nbeen steadily helping us to reformulate and expand our understanding of
\nthe gospel from that of a personal salvation into a place called heaven
\nto that of being “blessed to be a blessing” to the world. You directed
\nus to Lesslie Newbigin who taught,<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n

“God’s electing grace calls into being a people charged with the responsibility\u00a0of being the bearers of His universal salvation…To be chosen, to be\u00a0elect, therefore does not mean that the elect are the saved and the\u00a0rest are the lost. To be the elect in Christ Jesus, and there is no\u00a0other election, means to be incorporated into His mission to the world,\u00a0to be the bearer of God’s saving purpose for His whole world, to be\u00a0the sign and the agent and the firstfruit of His blessed kingdom which\u00a0is for all.”<\/p>\n

The Gospel in a Pluralistic Society (“The Logic of Election” pgs 86-87)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\n

Also you exposed the missing part of our gospel which taught redemption
\nwas primarily a spiritual one. The gospel understanding of cosmic redemption\u00a0has brought about radical life changes from how we see and engage in our\u00a0culture to how we spend our time and money.<\/p>\n

But here is where we feel the need to dialogue specifically with you:
\nWhenever we read or hear your words regarding the glorious and breath-taking\u00a0restoration of creation, we find we are unwilling to add the qualifiers\u00a0needed to square it with the traditional view. If we did we would have\u00a0to erase more than 90% of the hope you paint so beautifully in your summaries\u00a0of gospel restoration. The truth is we desire to take it all at face value. \u00a0It fills us with hope, a yearning and even a sickening desire for it to\u00a0be so. What are we to do with this? Since it is, according to the traditional\u00a0view, not God’s will that absolutely all things will be restored, is it\u00a0evil for us to desire it so much? Until now we have just kept it quiet.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

But Bell’s book has brought the issue of the nature of hell to the fore\u00a0and we want to take this opportunity to state that we do not believe that\u00a0this issue has been fully or honestly dealt with but given only minimal\u00a0discussion, or often simply dismissed and the majority view assumed.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The following are the reasons for why we want to take literally the Biblical
\npassages, as well as your words, which speak of a complete cosmic restoration
\nof all creation…and that,\u00a0as you are often heard quoting,\u00a0everything sad is going to come untrue<\/em><\/strong>:<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

1. When you have seen a glimpse of the incredible beauty and glory of\u00a0God in Christ through His Story you yearn to have everyone\u00a0<\/em><\/strong>see and experience Him as you have. It is as you have taught us: the natural\u00a0response to anything that is glorious and brings intense joy is to share it with others in order to complete the joy.<\/p>\n

2. When you love someone deeply and have seen their true glory it causes\u00a0you much pain and sadness when others do not love them or see their\u00a0glory as you do. It hurts you to see someone you love scorned, rejected,\u00a0ignored, or dismissed. The thought of billions of God’s image-bearers\u00a0never coming to love, honor or worship our God and Savior for who He\u00a0is and what He’s done is unthinkable. We deeply desire for all of creation\u00a0to see and praise Him, forever. That is why Philippians 2 resonates with\u00a0our hearts and why, we believe, it is often the theme of worship songs. (“At the name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord…”) Where does this deep desire come from and what will become of it in eternity?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

3. It seems to be the natural response of God’s people who have been undergoing transformation into the image of our Savior. We are taught and commanded by God to be lovers, forgivers, and redeemers. All our lives we are “in training” to become more like our merciful high priest learning to restore and redeem the world through our radical Christ-like love and forgiveness. In light of having the “mind of Christ”, when we are told that billions of our fellow man will be hopelessly lost and tormented for all eternity we seem to instinctively reject that idea (usually by simply not thinking about it) and we want to believe God has provided a way for them to be redeemed. At funerals of unbelievers we have often heard, “they didn’t trust in Christ but God is bigger…” (And this is from reformed pastors!) It is as if we intuitively respond by offering hope we somehow know must exist. The question in our minds has been: are we being made into lovers, forgivers and redeemers all our lives only to do a complete 180 in the age to come as we, “judge nations” and “rule over cities”. Will we be assisting in the condemning to an eternal hell most of humanity? \u00a0Is that what we are being trained for in this life?<\/div>\n
\n

4. In light of the doctrine of God’s absolute sovereignty (that we hold to as Reformed believers) how could we ever consider the traditional view of an eternal hell a part of the outcome of that absolute sovereignty? \u00a0If billions of God’s offspring are allowed to “stand up on the inside” hating God and cycling in sin forever, how is that a definition of absolute sovereignty? \u00a0Does God not say how much he “HATES” it when people say one thing (knees bowed, tongues confessing) while their hearts are far from Him? Did not Napoleon say that any despot can make you bow in obeisance but only Jesus Christ can make His enemies love Him?<\/p>\n

5. Included in the story of God’s redemption is the idea of justice.\u00a0In your tremendous book Generous Justice<\/em> you give us further\u00a0reasons to yearn for the <\/em>restoration of all things. <\/em>We\u00a0desire that “Primary Justice”<\/em> be also true of the ultimate justice\u00a0God has in plan for His universe. The following questions were generated\u00a0by your book:<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n
A. The beautiful vision you present from Scripture of how God views\u00a0the poor and oppressed with compassion and how it is inseparable from\u00a0His nature and therefore from our own personal righteousness, begs the\u00a0question: If God delights in helping the poor and indeed His defense of them is\u00a0a central part of His identity then please explain how the poor (majority\u00a0unbelieving) are given justice at some point only to be consigned to torment\u00a0in hell forever? If God has guaranteed \u201cjustice for all the oppressed\u201d\u00a0then how do those who die in their oppression, experience justice? Do\u00a0the unbelieving poor and oppressed, who never see justice in this life,\u00a0die in their sins, then later raised to get the justice He promised, (Psa.\u00a0103:5-6) and finally in the end thrown into the lake of fire forever,\u00a0along with their oppressors?<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
B. How does God sort out justice among two parties of evil oppressors\u00a0in the context of an eternal hell?<\/div>\n
\n

C. If God\u2019s Primary Justice is \u201cliving in right relationship to everyone\u00a0else\u201d then how is that possible with a compartment in His universe filled\u00a0with billions of rebel God-haters perpetually sinning against their\u00a0Creator in an eternal state of death? Does that mean most of His creation\u00a0will never be brought to Primary Justice and instead exist in an eternal\u00a0state of Secondary Justice? How can this \u201crectifying justice\u201d be the\u00a0final perpetual state for most of God\u2019s creation? Is God never going\u00a0to see Primary Justice in the ultimate sense in His universe? Further, how does\u00a0an eternal state of secondary justice ever pay for or resolve anything as it never\u00a0ends?<\/p>\n

D. If as you say, “doing justice includes the righting of wrongs as\u00a0well as generosity and social concern for the poor, which reflects His\u00a0very character,” then why is this earthly justice you propose entirely\u00a0incongruous with how you believe He will end The Story? It appears that\u00a0very little in the micro will be reflected in the macro even though\u00a0you said these truths about God and social justice are rooted in His\u00a0unchangeable (eternal) nature.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\n
\n

E. How will God mete out perfect justice in a place that is eternal\u00a0darkness and hopelessness? How can there exist degrees of absolute\u00a0<\/em>abandonment of God? If God has removed Himself, the very Source of all\u00a0that is good, light, life, love, peace and happiness, how can you mete\u00a0out degrees of punishment in a place like this? Would not a Hilter and\u00a0a Hindu teen who has never heard the gospel be forced to face exactly\u00a0the same fate? And would it not need to be the very sustaining grace\u00a0of God holding those in hell together (their very breath and molecules)\u00a0in order to punish them forever? And in this case would He not then\u00a0actually be with them <\/em><\/strong>forever?<\/p>\n

F. Finally, How can I really connect with my fellow human beings as\u00a0they suffer injustice if I believe what you say, that 90%+ of the world\u00a0will be lost and tortured forever? And if these humans are predestined\u00a0for destruction brought upon themselves by their own sin, and deserving\u00a0of eternal hell, would that thought not interfere with the command to\u00a0have compassion on them? It would feel as though I was working against\u00a0some kind of fatalistic “karma” that was predetermined. How do you offer\u00a0hope to a world in which you believe the majority is destined to be consigned\u00a0to a place where all hope is abandoned?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\n

5. You have often reminded us that sin is not breaking God’s rules but breaking\u00a0His heart. We would have to ask if we are more afraid of hell than sin. \u00a0Are we more afraid of breaking the rules (hell, a location) or of breaking\u00a0God’s heart (sin, a condition)?<\/p>\n

6. We have a question in light of your\u00a0description of hell as exclusion and separation from the face or presence\u00a0of God. We were surprised to find that the word “exclusion” (or “away”\u00a0or “separated”) has been added to the Greek in assumption that hell is\u00a0eternal separation from God (II Thess.1:9). The ESV has left it out in their footnote. The meaning has been altered from an age of destruction\u00a0FROM the face of the Lord to: eternal destruction AWAY FROM the face of\u00a0the Lord. Fire FROM the face of the Lord is really, really serious and scary…but not without\u00a0hope.<\/p>\n

In closing, we must say that your preaching in the prophets like Isaiah
\n19 where Egypt is named “My beloved”<\/em> and Assyria is called “the work<\/em>
\n of My hands”<\/em> has literally taken our breath away and left us undone. You
\nhave always made sweeping statements (like many pastors) about how “God
\nis going to restore everything to it’s original glory,” or that He is
\ngoing to “make all things new.” You’ve ended sermons with “everything
\nsad is going to come untrue.” You never qualify those statements. But
\nwe honestly never wanted you to. And we have never heard anyone challenge
\nthose statements in any church. The theme of restoration is on Reformed,
\nMissional and various non-denominational websites and the subject of many
\nrecent books. But why is it when someone reaches out their hand to grasp
\nthese vast, amazing, and inclusive promises at face value they are severely
\nreprimanded and possibly dis-fellowshipped?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Dr. Keller, can you consider that maybe we have misinterpreted this one part
\nof the Story? You have said yourself that we need to see the Bible as
\na Story with principles sprinkled throughout as opposed to a book of doctrines\u00a0sprinkled with stories. It seems like the church has been moving toward\u00a0this for some time now with the development of the understanding of “missional”\u00a0and “blessed to be a blessing” and the realization that God’s Story of\u00a0redemption is more than about my personal salvation but about being chosen\u00a0for the world.<\/em> We have been steadily “reforming” to see the Gospel\u00a0as an all-encompassing restoration of every atom of God’s universe. The\u00a0left and right are giving up their sides for a “gospel third way”; it\u00a0just seems to be getting bigger and grander. Does it have to stop short\u00a0of what the Bible seems to tease us with…”The last enemy to be destroyed\u00a0is death…Christ will be all in all…He will reconcile all things through\u00a0Christ…Every knee will bow…Behold, I am making all things new”? To\u00a0be honest Dr. Keller, you have brought many of us to this very brink by\u00a0your expansive and hopeful preaching and we are looking over the edge\u00a0and we really want to jump. (Many of us already have.) There doesn’t seem\u00a0like any valid reason not to and looking back is a swirl of contradictions, the irreconcilable doctrines (of the Calvinists and Arminians whom J. I. Packer says worship “different deities”), disputing and frankly despair.<\/p>\n

Could it perhaps be that this crisis exposed and stirred up by Rob Bell and others
\nis God’s way of “smashing plates,” trying to break into our thinking and
\nperhaps exposing some “traditions of men”? *<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We place these thoughts and questions before you with much prayer and with all due respect to you as a man of integrity upholding the honor of God. Again, even if you disagree with our position we will not cease to respect you or continue to learn from you.<\/p>\n

Sincerely,<\/p>\n

A small group of your biggest “fans”<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

 <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n

*Note: The “smashing plates” is an allusion to a sermon illustration.\u00a0<\/em>His wife Kathy was trying to get his attention regarding his over-scheduling\u00a0<\/em>in the early years of the NY church plant. Apparently he wasn’t listening.\u00a0<\/em>She took their wedding china plates (later he learned they were odd pieces)\u00a0<\/em>and began to calmly and systematically smash them with a hammer until\u00a0<\/em>she “broke into his world” and got his attention. (Later he praised her for\u00a0<\/em>this.)<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\n

<\/em>Dear readers, please feel free to post any part of this letter on your sites as well as any material on this website you feel is helpful. Please link to this site if possible, Thank you.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/em><\/strong>In light of Keller’s article “The Importance of Hell<\/a>” on his Redeemer website we have part one <\/a>of two in response to his defense of an eternal hell.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The following is an open letter to Tim Keller presenting our questions regarding his traditional view of hell: Dear Dr. Keller, We were introduced to you through a mutual friend…<\/p>\n

Read MoreDr. Timothy Keller<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","template":"","meta":{"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-2","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry","excerpt"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/2","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2"}],"version-history":[{"count":36,"href":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/2\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":27,"href":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/2\/revisions\/27"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/godslovewins.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}