N. T. Wright was asked about the topic of “Hell.” Here is a transcript of his response (video can be viewed below) followed by our response:
“My counter question is, ‘Why are Americans so fixated on hell?’ Far more Americans ask me about hell than ever happens in my own country. And I really want to know why is it that the most prosperous affluent nation on earth is really determined to be sure that they know precisely who is going to be frying in hell and what the temperature is going to be and so on.
And there is something which is quite deeply disturbing actually about that. Especially when your nation and mine has done quite a lot in the last decade or two to drop bombs on people elsewhere and to make a lot of other people’s lives ‘hell.’ So, I think there are some quite serious issues about why people want to ask that question.
Having said that, I am not a universalist. I have never been a universalist. Somebody said to me the other day they questioned a theologian on this who said, “I’m not a universalist, but maybe God is.” That’s kind of a neat way of saying, ‘OK, there’s stuff in Scripture which is a little puzzling about this and we can’t be absolutely sure all down the line.’ But it seems that the New Testament is very clear that there are people who do reject God and reject what would be His best will for them, and that God honors that decision. Now how that works and how one deals with the questions that result I have written about at some length. I don’t think myself that Rob Bell has quite taken the same line that I did in Surprised by Hope. I haven’t actually had the conversation with Rob since his book was published so one of these days we will have that one out.
I do think it’s good to stir things up because so many people as I say, particularly in American culture, really want to know the last fine-tune details of hell and it seems to be part of their faith–often a central part of their faith–that a certain number of people are simply going to hell and we have to know who these people are. And I think Rob is saying, ‘Hey wait a minute…start reading the Bible differently. God is not this horrible ogre that is just determined to fry as many people as He can in hell forever. God is actually incredibly generous and gracious, and wonderful and loving and caring.’ And if you paint a picture of God which is other than that then you’re producing a monster and that has long-lasting affects in Christian lives and in the Church.”
Those were intriguing words by Bishop Wright. It is comforting to hear he doesn’t sponsor the idea of the “monstrous ogre-God” looking for the opportunity to fry people.
But much of his answer here begs substantially more clarity on the matter. For instance:
1. How is it Christians have developed the reputation of representing the “ogre-God”? How did that vision ever get associated with a God whom Wright assures us is “generous, gracious, loving, wonderful and kind” and whom David says is “good to ALL he has made?” (Psa 145) I believe Wright here is implying that it is the Church, especially in America, that has somehow mis-represented the Biblical God of infinite love and grace. But honestly, how would you translate the message of a God who is understood to either not have the ability to save all His creation (Arminianism) or a God who is not willing to save all His creation? (Calvinism) And if the result of “not making the cut” is eternal conscious torment then it seems pretty logical that people would see this God as quite unmerciful and if this is the image His followers have in their mind’s-eye then it is understandable how they might become less than loving folks themselves.
2. If “God may be a universalist” means He just might literally “make all things new” but as Wright points out “we just can’t be sure about this” then it suddenly turns the Good News into a question instead of a proclamation of wonderful news (Isa 61). Instead of an announcement it becomes a set of questions: Have I believed enough to get in? Have I done enough to prove that I have “saving faith”? Are YOU going to heaven when you die? Are THOSE people going to get in?
3. No matter how humbly it sounds to remain agnostic on this issue and to say that the Scriptures are unclear and “puzzling on this matter” N. T Wright did what countless of other theologians do regularly: undermine assurance of God’s love and His one purpose for us. There is no single truth more powerful in a believer’s life than to know that God has always, from the foundation of the world, had one purpose for you–which is to make you into the image of His Son. We know this to be true with our children. They need to know without a shadow of a doubt that we love them and have one purpose for them and not two opposite ones. As long as some can be lost the jury for you will always be out. Unless you can know that God has one desire and one intention for your life that “cannot be thwarted” you will lack the full power of assurance, or what Lloyd-Jones calls, “high assurance.”
You must believe He both wants to save you and has the ability to make it happen or you will not possess unshakable confidence as a believer. There is no way around this. Take again the example of family. How would a child feel if he knew that his parents either may not want to love him always or may not be able to love him always?
4. Next, what about the free-will Wright speaks of that “God honors” which is able to “reject God’s best will for them”? Whether you take the direct route of immediate faith, or in unbelief squander your faith to false gods “in a far country,” is your decision. Call it “free-will” if you want but it’s anything but freedom. Salvation is ultimately God restoring true free-will to our captive hearts, minds and souls. And He promises He will restore the perfect worship of every person as “every knee bows and every tongue confesses Jesus Christ is Lord.” (Phil 2)
5. N. T. Wright says he has dealt with the various questions around this subject in his book Surprised By Hope. Curiously in this book Wright gives us a very un-Scriptural explanation of hell and the state of the lost. It appears that when we accept one lie we must formulate another to try and make it tally. For instance N. T. Wright entertains the possibility that the lost actually devolve into subhuman entities while in an eternal hell. Where is this found in the Scripture? Is this simply Wright’s most creative and palatable way to present and reconcile a God of infinite love with an eternal hell populated with what appears will be most of His image-bearers? Is that how he attempts to desensitize us to our God-given compassion toward our fellow man? Perhaps if we view them as not really human we can tolerate and maybe even approve of their grisly and horrible fate. I hope you are tracking with the implications.
6. Finally, I would have to say that all obsession and fixation with hell is not because it has become “a central part of one’s faith” for the purpose of judging people out of their circle. What about the countless souls who have been obsessed and fixated on the concept of an eternal hell because of the personal fear that they themselves may be headed there? It is for them a black cloud of doubt and fear that nags just under the surface no matter how distracted they become. This is because as we mentioned earlier there is no assurance that one is guaranteed salvation, either by faith or by doing good works that “prove” they possess “saving faith.” There is no possible way for a person to shake free of the torment of uncertainty short of trusting in the God who is both willing and able to redeem His entire creation. We are not talking about neurotic people but rather those who have simply thought through the theology they have been given through the traditional view of an eternal hell for most of humanity. Just statistically, it is reasonable and understandable how it is they must live in fear.
I hope you can see Wright has unearthed far more than simply uncovering our “American fixation on hell” and wondering where our compassionate American hearts have gone. We have been given much more to consider and question within this continuing debate on the nature of hell.
More on N. T. Wright at ChristianUniversalism.com: Why Christianity Makes Sense
“If the result…eternal conscious torment then it seems pretty logical that people would see this God as quite unmerciful and if this is the image His followers have in their mind’s-eye then it is understandable how they might become less than loving folks themselves.”
That’s very understandable. It’s like we become what we worship (G.K. Beale). Granted, the quote below is as he writes ‘an extreme example’ but sadly, not an example that stands alone in history.
Lee Salisbury: “An extreme example is Queen Mary (1516-1558) of England, who won her title “Bloody Mary” by torturing and murdering non Catholics. She justified her actions, proclaiming “as the souls of heretics are to be hereafter eternally burning in hell, there can be nothing more proper than for me to imitate the divine vengeance by burning them on earth.”
This excerpt was taken from… http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/etpunish.html
Thanks for sharing that excerpt and link. I have seen that quote before. It is quite startling to read it here again. We do indeed become like what we worship. I still struggle sometimes with a judgmental attitude. God is slowly realigning my heart with His heart of mercy. It’s not always my first reaction towards sin, that of others or my own.
It’s not, unfortunately. The way God worked in me was to start prompting me, gently, concerning various character traits in myself. The unbeautiful ones. It started off with small things. No matter how insignificant. I should say seemingly insignificant.
Like a still small voice saying kid, ‘You can’t laugh at yourself.’ First of all, I denied it. Of course I can laugh at myself, shrugging it off. But then it occurred to me, that it was true, and it was pride.
Little by little he’s changing me, so that when I do have a judgmental thought, and I do. He gently holds a mirror to my face.
And it’s convicting. It’s gentle but convicting. It is then that I can see that what I dislike or disapprove of in another, is something that I would dislike in myself (and most probably been guilty of at some point or other, to some degree).
By making my neighbors actions the mirror to my own, He’s teaching me mercy.
I can identify with what you are saying. Personally I have had to learn to move quickly from the “mirror of the law” which shows us our sin to the mirror of the image of “Christ in you, the hope of glory.” It’s easy to get stuck in our old identity (because there is no end to it). The law will never change us–only grace can.
I have been reading from the “Mirror Bible” (more of a paraphrased study-help than a “translation” as entitled). Here is from the introduction:
“God has found us in Christ before He lost us in Adam. He associated us in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4). He has always known us; now in Christ He invites us to know ourselves even as we have always been known (1 Cor 13:12)! Jesus Christ is the context and meaning of Scripture: His work of redeeming the image and likeness of God in man is what the Bible is all about (Col 1:13-15).
Christ reveals that there is no place in the universe where God would rather be; the fullness of Deity physically resides in Him. Jesus proves that human life is tailor-made for God. He mirrors our completeness…The meaning of His name declares our salvation. In Him, God rescued His image and likeness in us.”
grace and peace…
Definitely, although have to say i’ve never received it as Him holding the mirror of law to show me my sin. More, that when i’ve judged my neighbor, I’ve judged myself. To move beyond judgement to a place of love, by seeing people through his eyes. So yes, most definitely, what you shared articulates that much better, “In Him, God rescued His image and likeness in us.”
I really love that… “God has found us in Christ before He lost us in Adam.” Thank you.
received and likewise
Thanks, that is a good reminder that to judge another is simply judging yourself and that can then be the catalyst for moving into a greater love for others.
Glad you liked the quote.
I find it fascinating, that the door of all sin was called the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”. Is this not ironic that those who hold fast to eternal judgement are sounding like the very problem we inherited via Adam. We somehow preach Curse instead of the blessing. What is the “good news” if it is not thoroughly good news? I am just wakening from the darkness and control that Modern evangelicalism has wrought. The idea that all are saved does in no way lesson the cross, but in all ways makes it more miraculous.